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Here is a bit of a rambling rant. It is not directed at anyone in particular, rather, it stems from a general feeling I've been getting from several sources over quite some time. I'm going to warn you in advance that it holds some of the "walked five miles in the snow uphill both directions" attitude. I'm aware of it. (Kids these days. Sheesh!)
Spiritual connection and unfolding takes time. I ask people sometimes, why they are so invested in internet discussion groups when so many of them are full of infighting and posturing. They often reply, "How else am I supposed to get information?" I ask them why they are in such a hurry to find someone who will work with them on initiation. They never have any substantial answers.
I blame our culture. I blame fast food. I blame huge amounts of information flowing past us every second. I blame the hurry, hurry, hurry most of us live in. I blame over scheduling and its counterpart of self numbing.
I blame the quest for Information vs. Knowledge.
Information is barely helpful. We need some information, true. But we need far less than we think we do. What is more helpful to we humans is a bit of information that we then take away, chew on, practice, and eventually reject or digest fully. Shoving more and more information into ourselves means we never assimilate much. There is no time for the slow sinking in of things. There is no time to establish deep relationship. We are simply always seeking more. More. More. And this will never satisfy us.
If that which you seek, you find not within yourself, you will never find it without. - Charge of the Goddess
Remember those words? They are true. Back when I started studying the Craft (I warned you about the "walking five miles in the snow in Southern California!") we sought what little bits of information were available. My friend and I drove for an hour in secret every Thursday to get taught anything, as our teachers would not really teach us the Craft until we committed fully to it and were of an age to join their coven. We were teenagers and this was not possible. So they taught us some about herbs, crystals, numerology. We read what books on "the occult" were around. We lit candles and incense at home, despite our parents freaking out about it, suspicious we were on drugs. We prayed. We figured out how to practice, in fits and starts. Slowly.
Finally, I found a teacher who would meet with me and give me more to do. I practiced. I prayed. I lit candles. I looked at myself. I studied. Mostly, I worked on my own. It was thirteen years between beginning to practice the Craft and asking for initiation in a tradition. It was two years after that that I received initiation into what is now my primary tradition. I never expected initiation. I just wanted to study. I just wanted to practice. I just wanted to live better, to grow, to learn theology, to pray. I put in a lot of work. Everyone I respect has put in a lot of work. No one I respect demanded initiation. No serious, long term practitioner I know freaked out because after a couple of years of showing up, they didn't get initiated. We all just kept showing up, every week, if not every day. We knew it was a long apprenticeship. We knew God Herself, the Goddess, spoke to us. We heard the whispering of the fey in the trees. We were interested in the Craft for, and of, itself.
Some traditions have tiered initiations, so people can mark "progress." Even in these traditions, nothing is guaranteed. My primary tradition has but one initiation. For most it takes at least seven years study to pass through that gate. Very few make it. The rest give up too soon. For some, it just isn't the right path. Others don't want to put in the time and work and deepening. Or they feel they "deserve" it, which is a sure sign they do not. Or they think initiation is an end, rather than a new beginning. We put in the time to even get context. Once the context is gained, and we have the fortitude and strength, then the real learning begins. And that takes a lifetime.
We live in a time where so much information is available, we mistake that for knowledge. So much is given, so quickly, we fail to realize that our human systems work more slowly. We require time and stillness for things to sink in, to assimilate the information, to grow knowledge. We want so much yet we are given so little that is valuable amongst the wash of garbage. Because of the great sea of chaff, we often miss the good kernels passed on, that if worked with diligently, will grow large and beautiful fields over time. We go for that which does not nourish us, really, and therefore, never get a chance to become golden. We never pass from information, to knowledge, to wisdom.
Let us study the turning of the leaves on the trees and listen to the different speeches of the wind. Let us sit with ourselves and discover our own voices. Let us engage in the process rather than seeking the goal. Let us take our time. Let us eat good, nourishing food, instead of cramming our minds and bodies and souls full of whatever comes along. Let us know ourselves and know our Gods.
Blessed be.
Spiritual connection and unfolding takes time. I ask people sometimes, why they are so invested in internet discussion groups when so many of them are full of infighting and posturing. They often reply, "How else am I supposed to get information?" I ask them why they are in such a hurry to find someone who will work with them on initiation. They never have any substantial answers.
I blame our culture. I blame fast food. I blame huge amounts of information flowing past us every second. I blame the hurry, hurry, hurry most of us live in. I blame over scheduling and its counterpart of self numbing.
I blame the quest for Information vs. Knowledge.
Information is barely helpful. We need some information, true. But we need far less than we think we do. What is more helpful to we humans is a bit of information that we then take away, chew on, practice, and eventually reject or digest fully. Shoving more and more information into ourselves means we never assimilate much. There is no time for the slow sinking in of things. There is no time to establish deep relationship. We are simply always seeking more. More. More. And this will never satisfy us.
If that which you seek, you find not within yourself, you will never find it without. - Charge of the Goddess
Remember those words? They are true. Back when I started studying the Craft (I warned you about the "walking five miles in the snow in Southern California!") we sought what little bits of information were available. My friend and I drove for an hour in secret every Thursday to get taught anything, as our teachers would not really teach us the Craft until we committed fully to it and were of an age to join their coven. We were teenagers and this was not possible. So they taught us some about herbs, crystals, numerology. We read what books on "the occult" were around. We lit candles and incense at home, despite our parents freaking out about it, suspicious we were on drugs. We prayed. We figured out how to practice, in fits and starts. Slowly.
Finally, I found a teacher who would meet with me and give me more to do. I practiced. I prayed. I lit candles. I looked at myself. I studied. Mostly, I worked on my own. It was thirteen years between beginning to practice the Craft and asking for initiation in a tradition. It was two years after that that I received initiation into what is now my primary tradition. I never expected initiation. I just wanted to study. I just wanted to practice. I just wanted to live better, to grow, to learn theology, to pray. I put in a lot of work. Everyone I respect has put in a lot of work. No one I respect demanded initiation. No serious, long term practitioner I know freaked out because after a couple of years of showing up, they didn't get initiated. We all just kept showing up, every week, if not every day. We knew it was a long apprenticeship. We knew God Herself, the Goddess, spoke to us. We heard the whispering of the fey in the trees. We were interested in the Craft for, and of, itself.
Some traditions have tiered initiations, so people can mark "progress." Even in these traditions, nothing is guaranteed. My primary tradition has but one initiation. For most it takes at least seven years study to pass through that gate. Very few make it. The rest give up too soon. For some, it just isn't the right path. Others don't want to put in the time and work and deepening. Or they feel they "deserve" it, which is a sure sign they do not. Or they think initiation is an end, rather than a new beginning. We put in the time to even get context. Once the context is gained, and we have the fortitude and strength, then the real learning begins. And that takes a lifetime.
We live in a time where so much information is available, we mistake that for knowledge. So much is given, so quickly, we fail to realize that our human systems work more slowly. We require time and stillness for things to sink in, to assimilate the information, to grow knowledge. We want so much yet we are given so little that is valuable amongst the wash of garbage. Because of the great sea of chaff, we often miss the good kernels passed on, that if worked with diligently, will grow large and beautiful fields over time. We go for that which does not nourish us, really, and therefore, never get a chance to become golden. We never pass from information, to knowledge, to wisdom.
Let us study the turning of the leaves on the trees and listen to the different speeches of the wind. Let us sit with ourselves and discover our own voices. Let us engage in the process rather than seeking the goal. Let us take our time. Let us eat good, nourishing food, instead of cramming our minds and bodies and souls full of whatever comes along. Let us know ourselves and know our Gods.
Blessed be.
How long is the program now? Two years? Three? How about some gardening homework right at the beginning?--even if just to plant some seeds in a pot on the window sill...and some further tending-of-the-garden homework throughout the next couple of years.
There is very little like growing plants to actually get someone into the slower cycles of the natural world, and ground the annual rituals in some meaning other than a reason to get together socially with people they don't see every day.
There are other ways. Gardening has helped me tremendously in this regard, though. You just can't hurry the tomatoes. :) They come when they come.
Gardening is not a bad idea - but I'm not willing to assign that which I do not do myself. The most I do is water my plants. I do send people out to do things like commune with the trees in their neighborhood, learn their names etc. Perhaps I need more basic nature stuff - I just kind of assume they got that "basic" stuff from earlier teachers, as most folks come to me with often quite a bit of experience.
The world just seems to speed up more every day. I'm not even that old, darn it!
Disintegration to Integration on Shamanic Paths
My process was a little different. First I destroyed myself, literally. A total shamanic dismemberment. I went stark raving mad. I howled at the moon, I was feral, a wild beast. Poetic, and crazy. Then I began to pull myself together.
Once piece at a time. Over years, over two decades. Teachers, so many teachers. So many lessons. So many lifetimes lived in 20 years. Every piece added to flame of the Star at the core of my being.
It's that internal process that's always been the core driver. Initiations but milestones for an internal vector set in motion through my own choices and actions.
The truth is, not everyone gets out alive on a truly shamanic path. Not everyone survives. That's the way its always been, and always will be.
We can say the Shamanic path is no longer relevant for modern society as Sam seems to be invested in. We can try to inoculate ourselves from the WILD, and civilize Shamanic awakenings underneath the canopy of "Hermetics" or whatever. But risk will always be a part of the shamanic process. That's the Faustian price some choose to pay for Gnosis.
Directed here by a friend
I think some of it is a form of perfectionism, which is itself a form of self-loathing. People want to prove they're "good enough," and they're afraid that taking the long path means they're not. We attract a lot of people who are used to being the Smart Kid. (In the interest of full disclosure, I'm one of them.) That's great when it means they have shiny twisty brains; it's not so great when they have a lot of ego sunk into it and Getting the Right Answer is part of their self-image. When they encounter the reality that it doesn't work that way, that there's not a test and sometimes there's no question much less an answer, it can be quite a shock. Some flounder or get upset or get scared. Lots of us use Getting the Right Answer as a big shield against the world and when that goes away....EEEEEEK! Some people just refuse to acknowledge it and keep trying to find the right answer or someone who will tell them they have it.
Luckily for me I got my ass kicked by the Goddess early on so I actually had a whole lot of the cockiness and fear pummelled out of me already before I started
lighting myself on fireworking Feri energy. (Yes, this is the kinder, gentler, humblerOh, yes. That is still sinking in with me in my own practice and is so good to hear.
Blessed be to you too:)
Who is better nourished, one who eats every scrap of half of a pound of poor food, or one who gathers a plateful of the finest organic greens and watches it intently as it wilts on the table untouched?
;)
And then theres tracking.
As a relative outsider...This obsession with initiations, and the pointing finger that, what for the sake of discussion I'll call Neo-pagans, have has been a consternation from the moment I became interested in finding out what *they* were all about.
I am reminded of that conversation we had once where I asked you about secret names and compared "The Craft" to the craft of Blacksmithing, where I asked; "What matters more, that I know the tool is called a "Cheese Fuller" or that I actually know what its nature is and how to use it.
Again, nicely said. Thanks.
I'm a town girl, a garden person, a plot clearer, a seed planter. I stay in one place. I wait for things to grow.
So much to learn. What will grow here? And why? What can we do if we want something different? What happens if you plant chard in the same place too many years in a row? Do those require light or dark to sprout? If we put both of these here, which will survive? Which will bloom here? What about there? So much to learn, and it comes from doing. And fucking it up. And remembering better the next time. And fucking something -else- up. And working on that again.
The more I learn the more I realise how clueless I am.
But sometimes I wonder about tracking. That's farther out. Much farther out.
But in all seriousness, I must say indeed. But I also think the realization that the goal isn't initiation (because how can a beginning be a goal), is part of that journey. I think that a lot of people (myself included) initially do get involved with Feri specifically for the initiation, but by doing the work you realize that goal is a talker driven motivation and you start to more fully integrate. You learn that the work itself is the point, the journey and spiritual unfolding is the value, and when you are initiated it just makes that journey deeper and more complex.
Up hill, both ways, in a blizzard, with sub zero temperatures
my first resource: the card catalogue
my findings: the Salem Witch Trials, a biography of Anton Levay, and a novel about hashish users.
I was 12.
The novel was good. I still remember it 32 years later. The biography freaked the hell out of me.
so, I listened to my Grandmother, read about fairies, elves, gnomes, ghosts, etc. I poured over fairy tales.
I listened to what I now know are the spirits of this place.
I was told what I was looking for was *not real*.
I kept looking and listening anyway.
Eventually some really useful books became available and I met people who were looking for something like what I was looking for. The internet had not been invented yet.
23 years after I began my quest I logged on to the intenet for the first time.
So, for me, in this place (Pittsburgh, PA), it was not about information so much as knowledge...as there wasn't a lot of information out there for much of my journey.
I didn't even consider initiation for many, many years as it wasn't an option. Then, I didn't want initiated by the people I knew cause I didn't trust them. That seemed like it might be important information. Much has changed and initiation is a possibility. But, not a certainty.
In a nutshell, it has been about the journey.
Marjie
Nowadays we are awash in information--duck's back and/or non-attachment are also good approaches for all the information we're getting but aren't necessarily grasping at. Now I can read information as correspondence and see it as environment and pattern, and that makes it much more useful to me--and more fluid--than when it was just intellectual content. Now I'm working on translating what that yields back into communicable content... I want to in-form it rather than treat it as mere head stuffing.
We've all hear about the 'questioning attitude', it's something teachers can also cultivate.
Why?
why do you think that? Why do you think it's done this way? etc.
Know what you feel, feel what you know.
Information needs to be integrated to become knowledge. It needs to be applied in every way possible, adapted,blended, folded into itself.
It's like a chain, each link is a bit of information and gets forged into the chain, or even better still, information is like the warp and experience is the weft, together they weave knowledge.
What bugs me more is that I know folks have the info, they don't seem to be able to "weave" it into knowledge.
A lot of it centers on perceived authority via printed word. Folks tend to read about, say Qabbalah, or Veda, or tantra, etc, but haven't read Qabbalah or Veda or Tantra, etc, and haven't practiced it. There's sometimes too much reliance on what others have said or interpreted, rather than doing ones own work.
I think I'll stop, I don't want to rant upon your journal.
But I'm not gonna rant up your journal
When I’m an initiated Witch
Not seeker, not student, not novice
My ritual robes of a Witch
Will be made of only the finest hand-spun hand-woven natural dyed linen which I grow myself...
I’ll command each element, Earth and Air
Fire and Water with a magical flair
When I’m an initiated Witch
As I wave my wand all the trees will grow
And flowers spring up where I go
And rainbows fly up over my head
When I’m a Witch initiate
The bunnies will show respect to me, the Gardies genuflect to me
And all my answers will be correct
When I’m an initiated Witch
ROFL
Yes, thank the Gods. I need all that lifetime. So much deep, real learning and so much work and play to do!
[Ahem]
To deepening!
i don't feel like i've been subjected to that treatment personally, but i do see it happening to others on lists and the like. and it's certainly possible for me to say to myself, "well, those who treat students without respect aren't the people with whom you need to be cultivating relationship." still, i think it's natural for humans to want acceptance and to want to be taken seriously by the community they identify with. i know it was part of the motivation for my getting my doctorate, even though i then mostly left the academic community... but in both witchcraft and academic communities, even people i respected have sometimes drawn strong lines between "initiates" and "students" and implied that the latter were outsiders, without necessarily intending disrespect.
i do not speak generally or only of the feri community, such as it is -- it is diverse like anything else, and i have certainly seen this dynamic elsewhere... but i do think an environment where the credentialed people are constantly reminding the students of their lack of credentials and speaking harshly to them when they express opinions will always contribute to people wanting credentials for social rather than purely personal reasons.
I respect your knowledge, which is different than mine. And I also seek out teaching from my peers and those who know more than me in many ways. Those who stop learning are dead.
But there are others who want initiation because it can feel like a "thing". A badge. And I've encountered plenty. Those people miss the point.
All that said, one reason initiate vs student battles happen in Feri is that we are of a hurry up culture that tells us "if you were taught something today, you are qualified to pass it on tomorrow." Not so. Takes time. Takes digestion. So no, we don't want non-initiated students turning around and teaching. There's too much context they don't have. Conversely, someone initiated yesterday doesn't have the same stuff as someone initiated 30 years ago - caveat: *if the latter has kept practicing.*
That said, I'll reiterate that we all have skills and knowledge to share. And we all have our own experiences.
Playing Devil's advocate
Thorn wrote:
"I ask people sometimes, why they are so invested in internet discussion groups when so many of them are full of infighting and posturing. They often reply, "How else am I supposed to get information?"
As one who I believe gave you an answer such as this, I would like to clarify my answer. The lists are where I can share, compare and receive ideas with others with the same interests as I - including elders and others in the community of a tradition I resonate with. I understand there are other lists for this that have less infighting. Admittedly, I haven't actually asked to be a member of such lists, but my understanding is that these lists are for initiates only, and thus I am not permitted on them. So for now, I accept what I can have, and consider it practice. If I can remain centered in responses on the open lists, I should have no problem elsewhere.
Thorn wrote:
We require time and stillness for things to sink in, to assimilate the information, to grow knowledge.
Yes - but what happens in those moments when decades of accumulated information seem to coalesce into that bright spark of interconnectivity - does one simply sit? Yes - and no. Can't one also take joy in reaching for more and more pieces and seeing "yes, this fits - and this to - and this and this and this. When you're hungry, you can also reach for food which DOES nourish.
And then your elders say "slow down, son - when I was your age... " and describes a similar process. ;-)
Regarding initiation:
Perhaps part of the issue is that there are lots of misconceptions about what initiation means, among initiates and non-initiates alike. Perhaps someone could clarify what initiation is, so we all know we're talking about the same thing?
But yes - it is like high school graduation - moving on to live life. But sometimes it feels as if initiates use it as a way to set themselves above, or as a reason to withhold information (which may have some validity, depending on what initiation means). Some take years to graduate. Others are ready at 14 and have to fight off boredom for the next 4 years. Others get the degree, but still aren't quite clear on the concept. Others drop out and find some other path that suits them better. Etc.
Rather than tick off points, let me use a potentially controversial illustration.
Thorn, I stand here, shake my tail feathers, and accept you, with all your knowledge and experience, to be my equal, in all my glorious gaps in knowledge and lack of experience. Though you may have have different views and choices than I, and we still have much to learn of and from each other, I believe we share underlying values and deities in common, though they may differ in name. Therefore I accept you as a Johnist if you so choose to call yourself that, declare you free to make your own decisions (as if you needed me to tell you that), recognize that you will view me in the same way, and we will treat each other with respect and humility, even when we disagree, because it's the way to be.
If you can do that for me (you often behave as if you do) - if we all can do that for each other - let's just do away with worrying about initiations and leave our personal relationships with the Gods to ourselves.
But then why bother having initiations at all?
Oh, what the heck - if you really need it... Wugga-wugga-wugga. Sya-Dasti-Sya-Nasti-Sya-Davak-Tav-Yaska.
Perhaps an extreme position, and I recognize initiation can be more than that. The point I'm making is simply that we all may have something to learn from each other, and we've all had our experiences. Let's all respect that, even if we see things differently.
*No, I'm not an initiate of anything which uses those words, either, and I apologize if I give offense by using them. I've just always liked the idea of everything being true and false and meaningless.
Re: Playing Devil's advocate
As someone who lives in an area with few teachers in the traditions that speak most to me, the ability to travel an hour for teaching as often as once a week sounds wonderful. The smallest amount that I’ve ever traveled as been 5 hours by car and most often I’ve traveled 8 hours by car. Because of the drain of my energy and resources (personal and environmental), I cannot do that as often as I would like. And I know that I’m not the only one who does this, far from it.
Most of my practice has been on my own trying to integrate the work from various kinds of intensives into the rest of my life and personal practice.
Certainly, that time and energy has been paying off in terms of my practice. And in the last few years I’ve found peers who are interested in the same kind of magic that I am and I feel grateful for that.
I only bring this up as I perceived, perhaps incorrectly, the idea that it is much easier for folks now. That may be true in some areas or from some folks, but for me the opportunities you had on your start down the path sound full and lush.
I know that while I was studying with you initiation weighed on my mind. This was due in part for me just trying to understand the Feri tradition. While I haven’t asked for or pursued initiation into any tradition, initiation was also on my mind in part because what I learning and doing fed me greatly and in gratitude of that, I was interested in making a commitment to the trad and formally become apart of it. I’ve had a few realization around this and have taken a step back from all things Feri, (except my own practice) in order to gain some clarity around about where I’m going in my practice and to avoid becoming caught up in what others think, say or do.
I don't necessarily think it is easier for everyone now - although there is a *lot* more information flowing past us than 30 years ago. A lot. It is never any easier to do slow, diligent work, except sometimes we have better tools available.
It isn't ease I'm talking about in this post. It is the sense of hurry.
best wishes in your work.
Thank you for the rant! It makes me both love and miss you.
And knowing, in your gut, when you finally do come to Stand on the Threshold, that this truly is a new Beginning. Feeling stunned and more than a bit terrified and more than a bit ready-to-tumble, but knowing that still, you must press onwards into the Spiral Maze.
hugs and Blessings,
Shimmer PS. I freaked out my Mom with my habit of burning frankincense tears in my bedroom. I used to sneak out into the garage to get my Dad's barbecue charcoal. And I used a thurible I found in a junk shop called "This 'n' That from Here 'n' There." Fun days!
I blame the quest for Information vs. Knowledge. "
And yet it seems we keep feeding that culture. We keep delivering information for the masses. Easy, and fast, and enmasse.
Why do folks want to be initiated? Cause wow, I can have workshops and charge 100 bucks a head, and just pump out information. That's what folks are seeing, and that's the culture.
No I am not pointing any fingers, it's just how I see it.
Like Inky blue posted.
wheat always comes with chaff until it threshed and winnowed.
But then I see folks who are diligently practicing. Who are opening up. Who are "getting it." So then I show up to that part of my practice - teaching - again. I celebrate those people often. They humble and awe me. It is only every so often that I complain about the other part of our culture.
I could write a lot more on all this, but don't really want to.
As I ride the ups and downs, peer in from the fringes or take on leadership roles within my community, I keep seeing (and occassionally falling prey to it myself) this rush towards the perceived goal in students...in teachers. I was beginning to get very confused, wondering if this was turning into the norm and my interest in chewing in silence was odd.
So I keep saying it to my friends, covenmates and mentees and I pray that others like yourself keep on saying it too.
There's a lot of effort involved in learning and doing the things that turn information in to knowledge. And more work after, when we start to learn what our parts of the Work entail.
The problem I am seeing entirely too much of is that too many seekers simply are not willing to put forth the effort necessary to succeed at what they say they want to do. They are, as my Buddhist acquaintance would say, ensnared by Illusion.
I'm more than willing to teach what I know. But I'm having to sift through a lot more dross these days to find the occasional nugget of precious metal that is the student who really wants to learn and do.